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What if the system you trust to protect you fails miserably? We're diving into a narrative that paints this grim picture in the tale of Phoukeo Dej-Oudom and her children. Tragically, their plea for protection fell on deaf ears, and the consequences were fatal. They were robbed of their dreams and their lives in the city that markets itself as the city of second chances - Las Vegas. This heart-wrenching episode of Sins & Survivors brings to light the intersection of domestic violence and gun violence.
The haunting echo of Phoukeo’s story resounds in our current legal landscape, with a Supreme Court case considering the constitutionality of gun removal in the cases of protective orders being argued in November 2023. It’s a complex matter, and we’re taking a hard look at how victim blaming permeates these narratives.
Join us as Shaun and John confront the unrealistic expectations of easy answers.
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[John]
Last week on Sins & Survivors, we talked about Mason Dominguez, whose mom was physically unable to escape her domestic violence situation with her boyfriend Brandon Toseland, and it cost her her son’s life.
[Shaun]
What happens when the opposite is true? What happens when a woman does everything she can to escape her abusive husband, including moving out, quitting her job, and withdrawing her kids from school - all in an attempt to hide and find safety?
[John]
Well in episode 2 we’ll talk about a situation like this in which the system itself failed a local family in the worst possible way.
[Shaun]
Episode 2 of Sins & Survivors: A Las Vegas True Crime Podcast drops Tuesday, October 31st wherever you get your Podcasts.
[The Hook: ~1 min]
[John]
Las Vegas, with its bright lights and big promises, is sometimes called the City of Second Chances. It’s a city of endless possibilities. People come here from all walks of life from all over the country and the world, looking for a fresh start. Many people think of Las Vegas as a giant neon reset button, a chance to start over.
[Shaun]
One of the most sobering facts about escaping domestic violence is that statistically the most dangerous time for a survivor is when they leave the abusive partner - 75% of domestic violence-related homicides happen after a break-up. We talked last week about how you often hear the question asked, or even ask the question to yourself “Why don't they leave?”. This week we talk about a case where a woman tried to leave, did, in fact, leave, and sought help several times, but was hindered by the broken system.
[John]
Tragically, her pleas for help to authorities and the system were just rejected. She filed for an order of protection against a man with a history of violence so extreme he put his then 5-year-old daughter in the hospital at one point – but was denied.
[Main Content ~20 Min]
[Shaun]
Welcome back to Sins and Survivors: A Las Vegas True Crime Podcast with a focus on the complexities of domestic violence. I’m Shaun, and with me as always is the one and only John.
[John]
I am the only John in the room
[Shaun]
John, this week like every week in Las Vegas or really anywhere in America, we had a lot of news related to domestic violence. Coming up later in this episode, we’ll discuss a local case that deserves much more attention, the murder of Tabatha Tozzi.
[John]
But first, we are going to focus on the tragic and avoidable story of Phoukeo Dej-Oudom and her family. Phoukeo was murdered on June 30, 2016, along with her three children, as part of a horrific murder-suicide committed by her husband, Jason Dej-Oudoum
[Shaun]
Phoukeo’s story has been appearing in several major news publications this month, as these murders remain relevant in the context of a case coming before the Supreme Court that deals with whether it’s constitutional to remove guns from those who have orders of protection against them. We’ll get to that.
John, do you want to start us off with some information about Phoukeo and her Children?
[John]
Sure.
Phoukeo (who went by “Gayle” at work [Source])
The Children
[Shaun]
Marriage
DV Criminal History [Source]
The family Moved from Ohio to Las Vegas in March of 2015 (after Jason’s probation ended for theft charge) - we don’t have any info on what might have happened in between 2005 and their move in 2015.
According to their new Las Vegas neighbors - they were a quiet couple and friendly. One neighbor said he had seen Jason repairing a motorcycle in the parking lot of the complex. They seemed like just an average family. When they first moved in, they went around their apartment complex to meet people. They made it a point to get to know their kids’ friend’s parents.
To me, this gives me the feeling that they were trying to make a fresh start. They want to be part of the community.
[John]
It seems like even in 2015 she was giving him every chance to be better.
The couple separated on March 26, 2016, and she moved into her cousin’s house. As I mentioned, there’s a lot of detail in the order of protection, and we’ll provide a link to that so you can read it.
Shortly after that, according to what Phoukeo told coworkers - Jason took the 3 kids to Ohio without permission and without even telling her. When he finally came back with them she’d had enough and filed for divorce shortly after.
MAY 25 2016 - SHE FILES FOR DIVORCE:
States there is domestic violence and child protective services involvement. She requested sole custody and wrote “The father is a flight risk, and the children need to be in my care for education purposes, and stability…Father can not hold a job.”
According to the Las Vegas Review Journal’s investigation, police did respond to a domestic violence call at their apartment in early June, but there’s no additional information available that we were able to locate.
[John]
I’d like to talk about a few items from the June 8th order of protection, just to emphasize how shocking it is that it was denied by the family court.
In the Petition she wrote that on June 7 - just the day before she filed -
Jason was calling her and sending “harassing” text messages – She told him to stop and he ignored her. Then later that day, at 3 p.m., Jason shows up at her job and threatens to take the kids back to Ohio.. again.
He told her - ‘This will not end well.’
[Shaun]
NOTE: In a couple of places it looks to me as if there are 2 different handwritings on her order of protection petition — Which to me means, she had someone’s assistance and support in filing it – Which I would have thought would have helped her get the relief she was asking for - BUT It looks to me that someone made a note on her paperwork.
[John]
Yes, I see that – “the threats were made in 2000-2007 when we were living in Ohio” - It’s right after the part where she says guns have been pulled out and pointed at the kids’ heads.
because it did “not meet statutory requirements,” because Phoukeo “referenced situations in Ohio many years ago between 2000 and 2007 involving the father and guns, but nothing that had recently occurred in Las Vegas.” Source
[Shaun]
For me, something isn’t adding up here.
[John]
YA THINK?
[Shaun]
It’s not clear why it wouldn’t meet the statutory requirements –
I know I’ll go into this in more detail, but this protection order request, this was one that’s in effect only for 45 days, and under Nevada law, the other party doesn’t even need to be there to get that order, because it’s supposed to be about safety.
Under Nevada law - harassment and threats are included in the definition of domestic violence. And Phoukeo DOES allege events that happened just the day prior, with him coming to her workplace, threatening her — here in Las Vegas,
The judge also could have asked for a hearing if she felt there were unanswered questions. I know we have hindsight here, but in cases of violence, victims need options and it’s not clear to me what harm would have come to Jason if her request was granted.
[John]
What’s the downside to granting this? I understand that people are going to say that a piece of paper is not going to protect the woman from her husband, but having it is better than not having it.
Maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference, but maybe it would have
But it gets so much worse.
Advocates in the community explained to the Review Journal that in cases where the victim files for divorce AND applies for an order of protection, the Family Court will deny the order – Because the Judge in the divorce will issue a no-contact order (yeah that didnt happen because Phoukeo was in hiding on June 22nd when her initial custody hearing was to be heard.. So the case was just dismissed). (Source)
[Shaun]
Shortly after the order of protection was denied, according to her coworkers, she started missing shifts at work.
The Review-Journal has reported that on June 18, 2016 Phoukeo quit her job. She texted her manager - “I cannot work. He’ll know I am where I am. I have to quit now.” According to a coworker she was “scared for her life.”
As John said.. on June 22 there was a custody hearing related to the divorce but neither Phoukeo nor Jason showed up, so the motion was dismissed.
[Shaun]
That brings us to JUNE 29, 2016 the night of the murders.
Timeline on the crime https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/homicides/family-of-5-dead-after-quadruple-murder-suicide-in-northwest-las-vegas-valley-police-release-identities-of-four-victims/
[John]
Around 8pm, as the police are processing the scene where Phoukeo was killed –
Metro gets a call from a relative of Jason’s, calling from Ohio – saying that Jason had texted him saying he was suicidal and distraught and reporting that he had done something wrong.
[Shaun]
Important Lessons / Key Issues
In Nevada, you can get a basic temporary protection order - which is what some people call a restraining order – you can get one without the courts holding a hearing – which will order the other party to stay away from you, your kids, your workplace, etc. for up to 45 days. The court will even serve the notice to the other party for you. If you meet the statutory requirements for domestic violence, a court should offer you that short time of protection.
After the murder of Phoukeo and her family, the Nevada legislature in 2017 did take steps to strengthen the protection offered by protection orders.
We mentioned the temporary orders, but a victim can also request an extended order – which can last up to 2 years. It used to be 1 year, but in 2017 the law was changed. For this order, the court will hold a hearing, BUT at that point an offender could be ordered to turn over their guns and be prohibited from purchasing guns. This was also something that was added in 2017.
The Nevada Legislature also passed a bill that year that required employers to provide leave - paid or unpaid - to victims of domestic violence & additional protections for victims, which can help when you’re trying to escape violence.
& as an aside, a person who is convicted of the crime of domestic violence, in a criminal case, they can’t own a gun.
[John]
On the national level In November 2023, the US Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case – United States v. Zackey Rahimi.
The case deals with the issue of whether an existing law (Eighteen U.S. Code, Section 922 which we’ll link in the show notes in case you’re interested in reading that) violates the Second Amendment. In short, the law prohibits the possession of firearms by persons subject to domestic violence restraining orders
Scotus Blog https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/united-states-v-rahimi/ I really recommend the scotus blog. Im not a lawyer, but I find these really interesting.
Another thing I wanted to touch on here is (again) the idea of victim blaming, which I think if you’re listening you understand that’s a topic you’re going to hear about often as we talk about these cases.
On the r/Vegas thread on Reddit, there’s a conversation from the time where you can see someone say “Maybe she should have left him a long time ago”. As another person in the thread points out, Phoukeo checked all the boxes and tried like hell to get away from Jason.
In the end of course it's true that “a piece of paper won't protect you”, but that's not the point here. In our last episode, the victim was physically unable to leave... whereas Phoukeo DID leave. In this case, it was a very broken system that may very well have cost her and her children their lives.
I’ll also say that I think it's natural to search for simple solutions and to think that because we can come up with simple solutions like “Hey just pack a bag and go!” but that isn't the reality.
Maybe that’s a coping mechanism we use to convince ourselves this could never happen to us. Brains are funny like that.
Aftermath
[John]
I hate it here some days.
[Shaun]
We did an extensive search and we could not find any obituary for Phoukeo or the children, but we know they had many family members and friends who loved them dearly.
The story of what happened to them is memorialized in the official United States congressional record.
Phoukeo and her children’s murders were included in a statement made on the House Floor by Congresswoman Jackie Speier (“Spear”) of California on July 7, 2016.
Phoukeo & her children’s murders occurred about 2 weeks after the Pulse nightclub mass shooting in Orlando– which happened on June 12, 2016.
Congresswoman Speier spoke on the floor of the House that morning to honor lives lost to gun violence in the month of June of 2016. Phoukeo and her children were included with 47 other victims of gun violence that were lost that month – In addition to the 49 lives lost at Pulse night club.
[John]
On March 14, 2018 – On the floor of the Senate - Nevada Senator Catherine Cortes Masto made a statement on the issue of gun violence. She stated that over the past 5 years, Nevada had lost an average of 10 kids a year to gun violence. She read a list of 50 names of children lost to gun violence in Nevada, and Phoukeo’s 3 children were included.
This was the day when students at schools all over the country did walkouts in protest of gun violence – one month after the shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School, In Parkland Florida.
[Shaun]
This summer was 7 years since this family was murdered, and I have mixed feelings about this, but Phoukeo and her story continue to be used as an example of how we can do better as a society and improve our systems to protect victims and their children. this case comes up very often in the national media regarding domestic violence & gun violence.
[John]:
I wish we had fewer examples and fewer of literally the exact same fact patterns
9. TEASER
[John]: Next week we’ll be doing our first “tech corner episode” We’ll talk about the recent updates in Apple’s IOS operating system, and probably talk a bit about the whole idea of “find my”, location sharing, air tags.. And some best practices to keep yourself safe. After that we are going to cover the Tabatha Tozzi case. Earlier this week, Tabatha’s family and friends held a peaceful protest on what was the 6 month anniversary of her murder.
Tabatha was shot and killed on April 22 of this year. A warrant has been issued for her boyfriend Oswaldo Nathaniel Perez-Sanchez, but he has yet to be apprehended.
Police believe he shot Tabatha during an argument in front of a house on Leger Drive, which is near Cimarron and Alta in Las Vegas.
[Shaun]
A $10,000 reward is offered for any information leading to Perez-Sanchez's arrest.
Tabatha’s mother, family, and loved ones are seeking justice and asking anyone with info to come forward. They are also demanding that the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department provide an update on the status of the case and what efforts have been made to locate and arrest Perez-Sanchez.
Also, her family and friends mentioned that as part of the protest they wished to draw attention to gun violence and the murder of women and girls by men – which relates to Phoukeo’s case and sadly, too many others.
[John]
Keep an eye on our social media because we will be posting Perez-Sanchez’s wanted poster and description. & we will cover Tabatha’s case fully in our next episode.
S: So with that - Thanks for listening & Reminder to subscribe and follow sins and survivors because
what happens here happens everywhere.
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